Duke Players Talk To "60
Minutes"
From CBS News
In his first interview since declaring three former Duke University lacrosse
players innocent of all charges stemming from a rape accusation, North
Carolina’s attorney general says he was offended by the behavior of the Durham
district attorney who pursued the case for nearly a year. Attorney General Roy
A. Cooper also reveals new evidentiary details on why the young men were
declared innocent, in an exclusive interview with 60 Minutes
correspondent Lesley Stahl to be broadcast this Sunday, April 15, at 7 p.m.
ET/PT.
The report also includes the first interviews with Colin
Finnerty, Reade Seligmann and David Evans since the three former Duke athletes
learned that all charges were dropped. Of today’s apology issued by Durham
District Attorney Michael Nifong, Finnerty tells Stahl: "It may be an apology,
but it doesn’t make me feel any better…for what I’ve gone through. It was his
actions more than anybody’s that caused the harm. I don’t think anyone is going
to feel better after that apology."
"When you have a prosecutor who
takes advantage of his enormous power and overreaches like this, then yes, it's
offensive," Cooper tells Lesley Stahl.
Full Article
Point of View
For the last two weeks, I've been researching for what I presumed would be my last post on the Duke lacrosse case. Although I was glad to see the end in sight for these boys and their families, I was concerned about the very vocal, high profile mouths, which I knew, would continue to spout off from now till Doom's Day that "Something Happened!"
As I communicated to Professor Anderson, I was afraid they would never get away from that. So, I decided to try to show, with plain old science - specifically physics, biomechanics, and kinetics - that there was no way any reasonable, logical person could believe that, "Something happened".
To do that, I researched numerous on line sites and textbooks relating to physics, biomechanics of musculoskeletal and soft tissue injury, kinetics, boxing, accident reconstruction, and martial arts.
While I'll be the first to admit Math has never been my favorite subject and I've never taken physics, I have done considerable independent study of the biomechanics and kinetics of trauma, relating mostly to accident investigation, over the last five years. It was with this added background knowledge, that I questioned the accuser's claims from the beginning.
I had realized way back, that what was wrong with this
picture, was that not only didn't the expected pattern of injuries from
such an assault match up to the accuser's claims, or any transfer of
evidence or DNA from any of the accused pop up, but the whole scenerio,
as described by the accuser, just didn't make any
sense whatsoever. Not if you're looking at it from a biomechanical perspective.
This kept bothering me at the back of my brain
somewhere for a long time. I just couldn't visualize it. I couldn't match up her claims
with what I would expect the normal actions of the various "players" to
be throughout her convoluted stories.
It wasn't just that most stranger rapes don't occur like she
was claiming. It was the whole bathroom scenerio, complete with three
large males and one hefty sized female all crammed in there together in that tiny, little room.
All that choking, punching, hitting, pinching, kicking, and head banging against the sink - not to mention an actual rape and sodomy - that supposedly was going
on. All apparently occuring without the slightest physiological
reaction or injury on the part of the accuser.
Over the past year, I've tried to provide, on this blog, facts, education, and examples stemming from my own clinical experiences, to show that there was no way this assault could have happened.
From the very first time I read about the police report of the
supposed "rape" on the Smoking Gun site, I knew that
something didn't add up. I remember getting that kind of odd tingly feeling we all get
when little red flags are waving about in our brains. Something's just not right here. What's wrong with this picture?
As I stated in a post, dated April 12th, on my old Xanga blog site: ... as it stands right now, the pieces of the puzzle just don't seem to be fitting
together. Perhaps when more information is available, certain aspects of this
case will make more sense. Unlike many people, I'm not going to jump on the band
wagon in vilifying these young men just yet. As any seeker of truth, I prefer to
separate logic from emotion and fact from fiction. We will need to wait and see
how it all plays out.
And I wasn't the only one who thought something was screwy with this case either. Until I happened across KC Johnson's blog one day, and introduced myself, I hadn't been aware that others were also out there, jumping up and down, shouting, Wait a minute. Hold on there!
I'm very thankful that I did stumble across his blog site that day, as it also led me to so many other wonderful people and their sites, such as Professor Anderson, and Liestoppers, with all its terrific people, and Lashawn Barber, and so many others.
While I don't usually comment, I still read. And read, and read. It made my heart feel good to see that there were so many others out there - people of all colors, experiences, and backgrounds - who were willing to go up against a self-serving bandwagon, whose intent was to inflame racial tensions, propel their own agendas, and convict innocent young men.
From the DA's office to the Durham community to the Jesse Jackson's of this world, pushed onward by the various newspaper and media outlets at the time; it was a bandwagon, whose obvious thirst for blood was sickening in the extreme.
Finally, we'd come down to the end of this sorry saga. As of Wednesday, we finally heard the words we've all been waiting so long to hear: Innocent! You would think, with AG Cooper laying it all out and pretty much ripping into Nifong, the local newspapers, and the accuser, everyone - and I mean everyone - would finally admit the truth. The boys are innocent!
But no, as I suspected would happen, certain people can't be big enough to do that! Instead, we have to be subjected to insulting diatribes from people like Shabazz who obviously refuse to accept reason and logic.
This is why I wanted to try, one last time, to show just how illogical and unreasonable it would be to believe that anything at all had happened the night of the Duke party. It's because of people like this, who will continue to spew hate, no matter what the truth is.
Aside from researching, I also questioned two experts in their fields:
Dr. Lester Ingber, a physicist, former mathematics professor at George Washington University, and current research professor at Lester Inger Research. Dr. Ingber, with a very long, interesting background in math and physics, is involved in research within the information technology field, at his private company. Dr. Ingber also holds an 8th Dan Black Belt in Karate.
Mr. Marc MacYoung hails from a very unique background that makes him an expert on street fighting. Mr. MacYoung, along with his wife Dianna Gordon, specializes in teaching others to recognize the danger signals of violence, and how to avoid it, as well as self-defense. I've used his excellent web site material, including The Five Stages of Violent Crime, and The Pyramid of Personal Safety as a resource before.
Of course, as luck would have it, I woke up this morning to find that I didn't have to type up a huge report after all. After checking the news site first thing, I find out that good old Crystal did her own self in once again.
Raped while suspended in mid air???
When professor Anderson replied that we would have to suspend the laws of physics, in order to believe the accuser, I don't think either of us realized just how much!
Looks like I will have to save all that research on Newton's laws of Motion, momentum, force = mass . acceleration; and the Physics of Power for another day and another post, as Crystal Mangum has apparently proven Isaac Newton wrong!
Mr. Shabazz, since you believe in the accuser's allegations, and refuse to admit there are mental issues with this woman, could you please expound on this latest feat?
I'm sure the two experts I communicated with would be interested to hear how Newton's laws of motion and gravity were overcome. I know I would be!
Dr. Ingber had this to say:
"Many times "inexperienced" fighters or even very strong attackers do
not
"focus" their attacks very well. This means that damage to
internal
organs typically requires deposition of lots of energy to tear meat
by
driving deeper than skin level with missiles like punches and
kicks,
while damage to bone typically requires lots of momentum on contact
to
cause sufficient pressure to create fractures.
On the other hand, both experienced and non-experienced fighters can
often
cause damage, even in small rooms or without throwing long punches
or kicks.
For example, the use of elbows and knees, if just delivered
at "reasonable"
speed can cause lots of damage if they hit targets
correctly, since those
limbs are close to the torso and will generally
carry lots of mass."
Mr. MacYoung had this to say:
"People are often outraged when someone gets off from charges that the press
and pundits have already
convicted them of."
"Let's start out with a couple of
major problems I have with the story from the start. I have worked as escort
security for strippers before. There is no way in HELL any agency is going to
allow two dancers to go unescorted (sans bodyguard) into a house party.
Not only
do the bodyguards keep the girls from being assaulted, but they are there to
prevent the dancers from engaging in drinking, drugs and prostitution.
Activities, if it is a legitimate dancer agency, they are going to do everything
in their power to prevent because they don't want to get busted for pandering.
And agencies, like strip joints, are going to be fined a LOT more seriously than
the girl who is misbehaving, so they are definitely going to be paying attention
to this problem."
Supposing that the assailant is about 6'4, weighing approximately +210 lbs and
the female is about 5'5, weighing about 150 lbs. My contention was that she
>would probably be seriously injured or killed; due to a combination of
restriction of blood supply to the brain, respiratory depression, and possible
breaking of >the hyoid bone and others. Do you agree or disagree?
"Ron Sudders was an intoxicated
football player fighting several police officers. He died in the drunk tank
where he was left to pass out. The swelling occurred over a few hours causing
asphyxiation. This created a police policy common to many departments that IF
they are allowed to do chokeholds (some departments consider them lethal force)
then the suspect is automatically taken to the hospital.
A small woman like that there would
be no need to pick her up with a choke hold, the Lacrosse player could have just
picked her up. Although I am not a large man, I commonly picked up women and
carried them when I was younger and stronger.
Why would he need a choke hold? He
could just grab her by the waist and hoist her up thereby pinning her arms. It
is a far more stable grip to move someone."
The accused were wearing short sleeves at the time. The woman claimed she tried
to fight, yet no scratches were found. Does this make sense to you? Defensively speaking, wouldn't the first thing a person do would be to
scratch and try to pull at the assailant's arms? Would she even have had the
time or ability?
"If being choked, yes. If just picked
up, then her arms would have been pinned. However, claiming you were choked
sounds so much more dramatic doesn't it?"
In the event she was still conscious when pulled into the bathroom, what would
be the logical body mechanics of the different "players" in a typical 3 person gang rape scenario? What would be the likely sequence of events?
Would they immediately throw her to the ground? How would they keep her quiet? With threats alone?
"If a choke hold was applied for that
long there would have been a good chance she would have been unconscious.
I have seen a drunk picked up by the
neck. Although it wasn't a proper choke hold, he was out in just under five
seconds (alcohol as well as being physically picked up by the neck). He did
manage to scratch the bouncer who grabbed him.
However, upon passing out he
became like a limp noodle and slipped out of the bouncer's grasp. The bouncer, a
250 pound weight lifter could not maintain a hold on the limp body and the drunk
literally squirted out of his grip."
Which is another issue about the
credibility of the story. Given the size of the house, where she claims she was
grabbed and where she was taken to, there is little chance she'd still be
conscious if being choked.
>What about the claim of hitting
& kicking? Is that typical in this type of scenario? ( my research has
indicated it isn't) I was taught that an assailant will only use >the amount
of force necessary to control the victim. What would be the point of this?
"Again you're looking at
inconsistencies in the story. A three man stomping is going to cause some
serious damage."
She claimed she tried to fight them off but was overcome. Why continue to beat
& kick then after choking - especially in a house full of people? What would
be >the likelihood of her not sustaining any injuries?
"... if she was choked out why
wasn't she unconscious? It is really hard to come out of unconsciousness on the
fight. Again, this story stinks."
The accuser claimed she hit her head on the sink. How might that have happened
if the sink is only waist high?
"Maybe she was pogo sticking and
slipped on a patch of water. That makes about as much sense as the rest of her
story."
Based on my experience, as
well as research, I know about the pattern of injuries we would expect to see
from hitting a woman in the face. Biomechanically speaking, if a woman is
hit on the right side of the face, would her head then not rotate towards the
left, followed by her shoulders & hips? Wouldn't she then be more
likely to hit her head on the mirror above the sink? (supposing they were
standing in front of the sink?
"Depends on where she was. However,
if she did fall when hit then she'd have contusions on both sides of her face.
The sink probably causing a larger one."
I would like to thank both Dr. Ingber and Mr. MacYoung for taking the time to answer my questions. I encourage readers to visit both their excellent websites!
I would also like to take this moment to thank each of those persons who have written blogs and for the forums, for their on-going communications and support.
I am honored to have gotten the chance to know each one of you with whom I've communicated over the last several months. You have all been a source of inspiration and have helped to reinforce my own (admittedly) somewhat shaky belief in the justice system and the goodness of mankind over the last year.
Modified 4/13/07
2:23pm
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